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绳子和生命

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发表于 2008-11-14 12:31:23 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式
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目前有一些不明不白的所谓国产攀登用动力绳的广告出现在其他网站上。可能是本人孤陋寡闻,但是据我所知,世界上正规的攀登用绳都是美国和西欧的少数几个国家生产(法、德、奥地利、瑞士、西班牙)。正规的攀登用绳都必须通过 UIAA 和 CE非常严格地认证。日本人和韩国人都是用欧美出的绳子。日本人算是注重产品质量了,为什么他们自己不做呢?相反的是,为什么中国的这些乡镇企业忽然开始号称做攀登用绳了呢?

目前中国的商业操作没有规范,在牛奶里能掺上三氰胺,那是死了四十多人才暴光的。如果攀登的绳子不好用,估计死了4、5个都不顶用。您愿意做小白鼠您就自愿吧!

世界上最优秀的登山家,波兰人Jerzy Kukuczka就是死于一条来路不明的绳子。他为了省钱,从加德满都的小摊上买了一条来路不明的绳子。

请看灰灰的解释,为什么要用正规的攀登用绳:

"国产绳子好像只经过了拉力断裂测试,CE认证只是针对拉力的,其他系数指标都没有。
厂家所说的:“主绳(动力绳)”和“主绳(静力绳)”其实没有本质上的区别,只是颜色不同而已,只能视为静力绳。

对于攀登绳索,还有很多至关重要的指标,与生命息息相关。比如:冲击力指标、冲坠系数、绳索延展度,以及绳壳滑动量等问题。
在攀登坠落时,绳索对人的冲击拉力不能超过12KN(UIAA标准),否则,绳索虽然不断,但人已经被强大的拉力导致伤亡,所以动力绳的冲击力指标、冲坠系数和延展度非常重要。"

http://www.vboulder.com/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=3021&extra=page%3D1



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发表于 2008-11-14 13:39:37 | 显示全部楼层

绳子就是生命线,绝不能妥协……

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注册绿野,不忘初心。

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发表于 2008-11-16 19:16:25 | 显示全部楼层

要看是做什么用了,如果不是用于攀岩防护,用用国产的绳子也无妨。

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发表于 2008-11-16 20:55:36 | 显示全部楼层

楼主说的是动力绳

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发表于 2008-11-17 19:51:20 | 显示全部楼层

已经和厂商联系过证实其未做UIAA认证(附已经通过UIAA认证动力绳列表和认证过期时间)

DYNAMIC ROPES UIAA 101 Date: 2008-07-20
The products listed below are conform to the UIAA Standards
Beal

Product name Size Description Expiry date
Elliot Scott 10.2 mm single rope 2010-12-31
PMI Encore 10.6 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Wall Master IV 10.5 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Wall Cruiser 10.4 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Tiger 10 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Wall Master V 10.5 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Verdon II 9 mm half rope 2010-12-31
Top Gun II 10.5 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Stinger III 9.4 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Stinger II 9.4 mm single rope 2010-12-31
Salewa Special 10.2 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Salewa Classic 10.5 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Rider 10.5 mm single rope 2010-12-31
Rando 8 mm twin rope 2009-12-31
Pro Montain 8.8 mm half rope 2010-12-31
Lyon Equipment 11 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Joker 9.1 mm half, twin & single rope 2009-12-31
Ice Twin 7.7 mm twin rope 2009-12-31
Ice Line 8.1 mm half rope 2010-12-31
Flyer II 10.2 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Flyer 10.2 mm single rope 2010-12-31
Ferrata 9.4 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Edlinger II 10.2 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Cobra II 8.6 mm half rope 2010-12-31
Booster III 9.7 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Edlinger 9.8 mm single rope 2010-12-31
Booster II 9.7 mm single rope 2010-12-31
Apollo II 11 mm single rope 2009-12-31

BlueWater Ropes
Product name Size Description Expiry date
Excellence 8.4 mm half rope 2009-12-31
Ice Floss 7.7 mm twin rope 2009-12-31
APEXX GEAR 10.5 mm single rope 2008-12-31
Enduro 11.0 mm single rope 2008-12-31
DynaPlus 10.7 mm single rope 2008-12-31
DynaGym 10.6 mm single rope 2008-12-31
Accelerator 10.5 mm single rope 2008-12-31
SlimLine Elite 10.3 mm single rope 2008-12-31
Eliminator 10.2 mm single rope 2008-12-31
DynaPlus 10.1 mm single rope 2008-12-31
Lightning Pro 9.7 mm single rope 2008-12-31
Dominator 9.4 mm half rope 2008-12-31
Dominator 9.4 mm single rope 2008-12-31

CAMP
Product name Size Description Expiry date
Fission Walk 7.6 mm twin rope 2009-12-31
Fusion 8.6 mm half rope 2009-12-31
Plekton 8.1 mm half rope 2009-12-31
Positron 11 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Page 1/6
DYNAMIC ROPES UIAA 101 Date: 2008-07-20
The products listed below are conform to the UIAA Standards
Product name Size Description Expiry date
Nucleus 10.4 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Ionic 10.1 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Electron 10.2 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Neutron 10.2 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Proton 9.7 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Atom 9.1 mm single, double & twin rope 2009-12-31
Cousin

Product name Size Description Expiry date
Millet Taurus Triaxiale 10.4 mm single rope 2010-12-31
Millet Taurus Max Triaxiale 10.2 mm single rope 2010-12-31
Millet Silver Triaxiale 9.8 mm single rope 2010-12-31
Millet Rubix Triaxiale 8.5 mm half rope 2010-12-31
Millet Quartz 10.3 mm single rope 2010-12-31
Millet Pro Forces 8.6 mm half rope 2010-12-31
Millet Magma 9.5 mm single rope 2010-12-31
Millet Falcon II 10.2 mm single rope 2010-12-31
Millet Diamond Triaxiale 10.4 mm single rope 2010-12-31
Millet Diamax Triaxiale 10.2 mm single rope 2010-12-31
Millet Catch 10.5 mm single rope 2010-12-31
Millet Alpine Lite 8.0 mm half rope 2010-12-31
Millet Alpha Fluid Protect 10.3 mm single rope 2010-12-31
Cousin Trestec Tepee 10.2 mm single rope 2010-12-31
Cousin Trestec Transalp 9.9 mm single rope 2010-12-31
Cousin Trestec Top Rock XX10.7 mm single rope 2010-12-31
Petzl Dojo 10.7 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Petzl Dragonfly 8.2 mm half rope 2009-12-31
Petzl Zephyr 10.3 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Petzl Nomad 9.9 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Petzl Fuse 9.5 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Cousin Trestec Magma 9.6 mm single rope 2008-12-31

Edelrid
Product name Size Description Expiry date
Perfect 10,5 mm single rope 2010-12-31
Safety Dynamic Dry 12 mm single rope 2010-12-31
Python 10 mm single rope 2010-12-31
Perfect 11 mm single rope 2010-12-31
Vertical 10,3 mm single rope 2010-12-31
Glacier Dry 8,5 mm half rope 2010-12-31
Kestrel & Kestrel Dry 8,5 mm half rope 2010-12-31
Merlin 8,0 mm half rope 2010-12-31
Colibri 7,6 mm twin rope 2010-12-31
Cobra 10,3 mm single rope 2010-12-31
Condor 11 mm single rope 2010-12-31
Tower 10,5 mm single rope 2010-12-31
Osprey 10,5 mm single rope 2010-12-31
Harrier & Harrier Bicolor 10,2 mm single rope 2010-12-31
Hawk 10 mm single rope 2010-12-31
Eagle & Eagle Bicolor 9,8 mm single rope 2010-12-31
Falcon & Falcon Bicolor 9,4 mm single rope 2010-12-31


Edelweiss
Product name Size Description Expiry date
Element 10.2 mm single rope 2010-12-31
Flashlight standard 10 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Starlight 10 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Superlight 10 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Onsight 9.9 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Ultralight 40 9.9 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Performance 9.2 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Laser 9.6 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Tornado 9 mm half rope 2009-12-31
Extrem 9.0 mm half rope 2009-12-31
Extrem 11.0 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Oxygen 8.2 mm half rope 2009-12-31
Touring 8 mm twin rope 2009-12-31
Discover 8 mm twin rope 2009-12-31
Duolight 8.0 mm twin rope 2009-12-31
Dynamic 8.3 mm twin rope 2009-12-31
Calanques 8.5 mm twin rope 2009-12-31
Sella 8.5 mm half rope 2009-12-31
Dynamic 8.3 mm half rope 2009-12-31
Calanques 8.5 mm half rope 2009-12-31
Sella 11 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Sella 10.5 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Torrent 10.5 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Emotion 10.5 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Calanques 10.5 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Ally 10.3 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Axis standard 10.3 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Riglos 10.2 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Axis 10.3 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Sharp 8.5 mm half rope 2009-12-31
Sharp 10.5 mm single rope 2009-12-31

Ferrino
Product name Size Description Expiry date
Ghiaccio 8.5 mm half & twin rope 2009-12-31
Dru dry 8.5 mm half & twin rope 2009-12-31
Presles 9.9 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Mesules 10 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Vercors dry 10.5 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Gilmonte
Product name Size Description Expiry date
Gilmonte Raasta 10 mm single rope 2009-12-31

Goeman
Product name Size Description Expiry date
Twin rope 9.5 mm 2009-12-31
Single rope 11 mm 2009-12-31
Page 3/6
DYNAMIC ROPES UIAA 101 Date: 2008-07-20
The products listed below are conform to the UIAA Standards

Kaya
Product name Size Description Expiry date
Braided 10.5 mm single rope 2009-12-31

Mammut
Product name Size Description Expiry date
Spark 9.6 mm single rope 2010-12-31
Serenity 8.9 mm single rope 2010-12-31
Matterhorn 10.4 mm single rope 2010-12-31
Gym Rope 10.2 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Genesis 8.6 mm half rope 2009-12-31
Universe 9.0 mm half rope 2009-12-31
Start 2000 10.5 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Tusk 9.8 single rope 2009-12-31
Galaxy 10.0 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Flash 10.4 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Flex 10.7 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Infinity 9.5 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Start 2002 10.2 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Phoenix 8.0 mm half rope 2009-12-31
Eternity 10.0 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Twilight 7.6 mm twin rope 2009-12-31
Supersafe 10.4 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Start 2004 10.4 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Revelation 9.3 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Promo 10.2 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Nimbo 10.4 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Half Dome 8.4 mm 2009-12-31
Eiger 10.7 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Dynaflex 10.7 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Alto 10.2 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Airmaster 10.7 mm single rope 2009-12-31

New England Ropes
Product name Size Description Expiry date
Chalk Line 10.8 mm 10.8mm Gym Rope 2010-12-31
Apogee 9,1 mm single rope 2008-12-31
Pinnacle 9,5 mm single rope 2008-12-31
Glider 10,2 mm single rope 2008-12-31
Equinox 10,2 mm single rope 2008-12-31
Elevate 10,8 mm single rope 2008-12-31
Glider 10,5 mm single rope 2008-12-31
Apex 10,5 mm single rope 2008-12-31
Glider 9,9 mm single rope 2008-12-31
Apex 9,9 mm single rope 2008-12-31
Glider 11,0 mm single rope 2008-12-31
Apex 11,0 mm single rope 2008-12-31
Unity 9,0 mm half rope 2008-12-31
Unity 8,0 mm half rope 2008-12-31


PMI
Page 4/6
DYNAMIC ROPES UIAA 101 Date: 2008-07-20
The products listed below are conform to the UIAA Standards
Product name Size Description Expiry date
Spire 10.2 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Cirque 10.6 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Arete 9.7 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Elite 9.4 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Fusion 8.6 mm half & twin rope 2009-12-31
Verglas 8.1 mm half & twin rope 2009-12-31
Latitude 11 mm single rope 2008-12-31

Roca
Product name Size Description Expiry date
Trek 8 mm twin rope 2009-12-31
Io 9.4 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Kio 10.2 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Indoor 10.4 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Minus 9.8 mm single rope 2008-12-31
Tasmania 9 mm half rope 2008-12-31
Tasmania 10.5 mm single rope 2008-12-31
Fanatic 8.5 mm half rope 2008-12-31
Migú 8 mm half & twin rope 2008-12-31
Strong 9 mm half rope 2008-12-31
Free 10.5 mm single rope 2008-12-31
Fanatic 10 mm single rope 2008-12-31
Strong 11 mm single rope 2008-12-31

Singing Rock
Product name Size Description Expiry date
Score 10.1 mm single rope 2010-12-31
Wallter indoor 10.4 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Duran 10,4 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Glory 9,8 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Accord 8.3 mm half & twin rope 2008-12-31
Trinity 10.3 mm single rope 2008-12-31

Sterling Rope
Product name Size Description Expiry date
Infinity Sprint 9.2 mm single & half rope 2010-12-31
Ion 9.5 mm single rope 2010-12-31
Fusion Nano 9.2 mm single & half rope 2009-12-31
Infinity Sprint 10.2 mm single rope 2008-12-31
Marathon Pro 10.1 mm single rope 2008-12-31
Marathon Ultra 10.7 mm single rope 2008-12-31
Infinity Sprint 8.4 mm half rope 2008-12-31
Infinity Enduro 10.7 mm single rope 2008-12-31
Evolution Duetto 8.4 mm half rope 2008-12-31
Evolution Velocity 9.8 mm single rope 2008-12-31
Infinity Enduro 9.1 mm half rope 2008-12-31
Marathon Mega 11.2 mm single rope 2008-12-31
Evolution Kosmos 10.2 mm single rope 2008-12-31
Evolution Quantum 10.7 mm single rope 2008-12-31
Marathon 8.8 mm half rope 2008-12-31
Marathon Sport 10.4 mm single rope 2008-12-31
Page 5/6
DYNAMIC ROPES UIAA 101 Date: 2008-07-20
The products listed below are conform to the UIAA Standards
Product name Size Description Expiry date
Fusion Nitro 9.8 mm single rope 2008-12-31

Tendon
Product name Size Description Expiry date
Tendon Touch 10,2 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Tendon Master 9,4 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Tendon Ambition 10 mm single rope 2009-12-31
Tendon Ambition 7,9 mm twin rope 2009-12-31
Tendon Ambition 7,9 mm half rope 2009-12-31
Tendon Trust 11,4 mm single rope 2008-12-31
Tendon Trust 11 mm single rope 2008-12-31
Tendon Ambition 10,5 mm single rope 2008-12-31
Tendon Smart 10,5 mm single rope 2008-12-31
Tendon Ambition 10,5 mm single rope 2008-12-31
Tendon Ambition 10,2 mm single rope 2008-12-31
Tendon Smart 10,0 mm single rope 2008-12-31
Tendon Master 10,0 mm single rope 2008-12-31
Tendon Ambition 9,8 mm single rope 2008-12-31
Tendon Master 9,7 mm single rope 2008-12-31
Tendon Master 9,2 mm single rope 2008-12-31
Tendon Ambition 9,1 mm half rope 2008-12-31
Tendon Ambition 8,5 mm half rope 2008-12-31
Tendon Master 8,5 mm twin rope 2008-12-31
Tendon Master 8,5 mm half rope 2008-12-31
Tendon Master 7,8 mm twin rope 2008-12-31
Tendon Master 7,8 mm half rope 2008-12-31

怎么说呢,给他们交老些钱检测一次还不行,还要年年给人家UIAA"上贡"要是我我也不干。  

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发表于 2008-11-17 22:28:54 | 显示全部楼层

UIAA并不神圣 它只能为你多加一道防护

虽然通过了UIAA CE sharken 爪子如高强度使用仍需召回.
虽然通过了UIAA todd 的BELAY LOOP环照样磨损断裂.
装备不能过度使用,一旦使用过度后要及时更换,这是更保险的.
即使是国产绳,随便用几次就死人机率是很小的,重点在于勤检查早更换,重点还是看个人安全意识怎么样.

几十年前的老攀登者还不都是用破绳子爬的?尼龙绳这些年才有.




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发表于 2008-11-18 13:29:54 | 显示全部楼层

不清楚你在说什么

好像发帖有问题。


> “怎么说呢,给他们交老些钱检测一次还不行,还要年年给人家UIAA"上贡"要是我我也不干。”

他们不干可以啊,我可以不买他们的绳子,而且建议所有的我珍惜的朋友不买。不到1000块钱一根的进口的UIAA认证的绳子能用5、6年,贵啊?这年头?我昨天在北医三院运动医学门口路过了一下,人满为患,随便看点什么就是三位数账单。我是去看别的病的,咳嗽不停,也是三位数。绳子便宜啊。

>虽然通过了UIAA CE sharken 爪子如高强度使用仍需召回.

你是想说所以UIAA认证就可有可无?认证了的还有召回,不认证的不就更没谱了?不但产品本身质量没谱,连花钱认证都不肯做的厂家就更没谱了,你指望它发现问题招回产品或给你警告,那简直是,我在找词,,,痴人说梦?使用认证了的东西时,你至少知道曾经有人花了钱、花了功夫为保证你的产品质量奋力工作。使用没认证的东西?你除了知道有人从你这里赚钱走人外就没什么了。

> “即使是国产绳,随便用几次就死人机率是很小的”

这话越听越别扭。

你说的别的都对,勤检查、早更换、个人安全意识。我也相信国产绳爬个几次顶绳没问题。但是几次?几个月?奶粉里还添三氯氰胺,你知道国产绳子的尼龙里掺了什么?造绳子的厂家对他们的绳子能用多久都未必知道。比如说你纪律严明,每年换一次国产绳,可是平均下来,那不到1000块钱一根的进口的UIAA认证的绳子能爬顶绳用7-10年真的贵吗?(经验证明,UIAA认证的绳子10年不会因爬顶绳出问题,这我们敢说)

现在90%攀登人都比不上用麻绳时代人的安全意识。认证机制是*有效果*的,由其是保护不明细节的初学者。在中国由其不能向初学者推崇绕开国际水平认证的作法。


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发表于 2008-11-18 14:18:55 | 显示全部楼层

我要说的是3个观点:

1.国产绳顶绳使用按抱石网人讲能凑合用,目前国内发生的拓展死伤案例以误操作为主,绳索断裂没见过。在这种数据基础上不应上来就否定国内的产品。

2.进口的再好,也要靠自己检查。没有安全意识再好的绳子也保不了命。比如DAN OSMAN绳子断了是蹦的角度问题。

3.UIAA不是神仙,也一样会有疏忽的时候。我长期接触CE、UL、ISO等机构,就跟你们对国产有成见一样,我对这些认证机构一样有成见。

最后我也不敢用国产的,但是免不了很多机构为省钱会用,我们不要用自己的经济情况去衡量别人的消费。
我们不要理想主义的去打死他们,而是给他们以数据上的监督和指正。
我们更多该做的是给客户数据以说服他们小心,数据才是让人无可辩驳的东西。

经济上堵不住,就要导。

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发表于 2008-11-18 15:04:08 | 显示全部楼层

唉,说来说去原来大家都不用……

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发表于 2008-11-18 17:20:03 | 显示全部楼层

原讨论贴在这

http://www.chinaclimber.com/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=3114&extra=page%3D1
来自旧版论坛的签名keep a forest in the graden
绳子和生命 janeclimber 2008-11-14
绳子就是生命线,绝不能妥协…… 鸡肚皮 2008-11-14
要看是做什么用了,如果不是用于攀岩防护,用用国产的绳子也无妨。 倾疯铭阅 2008-11-16
楼主说的是动力绳 鸡肚皮 2008-11-16
已经和厂商联系过证实其未做UIAA认证(附已经通过UIAA认证动力绳列表和认证过期时间) duke5d 2008-11-17
UIAA并不神圣 它只能为你多加一道防护 duke5d 2008-11-17
不清楚你在说什么 mh 2008-11-18
我要说的是3个观点: duke5d 2008-11-18
唉,说来说去原来大家都不用…… 鸡肚皮 2008-11-18
我都同意 mh 2008-11-19
UIAA 是和山寨版的绳子没有关系…… 二师兄 2008-11-19
二师兄,现在你的肉比师父的肉都贵了,让我们保护谁呢? SG1SGA 2008-11-19
原讨论贴在这 nick200 2008-11-18
请教:有没有绳子探伤用的东西 比如拍个片子什么的 duke5d 2008-11-22
暂时没指望,工业探伤机又太贵。 jjyfoot 2008-11-26
如果租用一天是5000块 集中探100条绳子 也值了... duke5d 2008-11-26
地铁安检的X光机如何? SG1SGA 2008-11-26
没戏,精度不够。 jjyfoot 2008-11-28
基本检查很简单 mh 2008-11-26
严重感谢mh!!! duke5d 2008-11-28
Todd Skinner 和 Dan Osman的事故调查结果 janeclimber 2008-11-27
是说Skinner的吊环也许和酸蚀有关,说明绳子等尼龙制品怕酸蚀 mh 2008-11-27
Todd Skinner的安全带经检查没有发现任何酸蚀的证据 janeclimber 2008-12-01
多谢。没找到明显原因,这很令人不安! mh 2008-12-05
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